Kathy Charlesworth
21 MR. WILSON: Thank you, Your Honor. We would call
22 Kathy Charlesworth to the stand at this time.
23 THE COURT: Ms. Charlesworth, step up here, please,
24 to be sworn. Raise your right hand and face the clerk.
25 KATHY CHARLESWORTH,
1 being first duly sworn, was examined and
2 testified as follows:
3 THE COURT: Have a seat up there and state your name
4 and spell the last name.
5 THE WITNESS: Kathy Charlesworth.
6 C-h-a-r-l-e-s-w-o-r-t-h.
7 DIRECT EXAMINATION
8 BY MR. WILSON:
9 Q. What city do you reside in, Kathy?
10 A. Syracuse.
11 Q. And you're the daughter of Mary Crane?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. I want to direct your attention back to 1995. Let's just
14 talk about 1995 for a minute. Where was your mother housed
15 in 1995?
16 A. At Sandy Regional. It was a rest home.
17 Q. That was located in Salt Lake, as I understand it, is
18 that correct?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And she'd been there, according to earlier testimony, for
21 some four or five years, I think, at that time?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Did you have occasion to visit with her at the Sandy
24 Regional Center?
25 A. Yes, many times.
1 Q. Okay. And were you aware of any particular problems,
2 health problems, your mother was experiencing at that time?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Were these of a chronic nature?
5 A. I'm not a medical person. I don't know what chronic
6 means.
7 Q. Of a long standing nature?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Can you tell us what her health condition was at the
10 Sandy Regional Center, her physical health?
11 A. Physically she was more or less confined to a wheelchair.
12 She's had a stroke and had a weakness on one side.
13 Q. Okay. Did you happen to be present at times when your
14 mother would complain about pain?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And can you tell us the nature of her complaints about
17 pain?
18 A. My mother complained of a headache and other little aches
19 and pains from the time I was a little child.
20 Q. I see. So this wasn't something that was new relative to
21 her being in the nursing home or the care facility?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Do you know how that headache pain was treated?
24 A. Normally it was treated with Tylenol. Are you talking
25 about in the nursing home?
1 Q. Yes, I am.
2 A. Because it was something that -- she didn't always have a
3 headache. It was something that she said, like I'm tired, I
4 have a headache. She was prescribed what they called a
5 placebo, a pill that was not a pain pill. If she had a
6 headache and she was -- had been given maybe Tylenol
7 previously, or maybe not had been given Tylenol, she was
8 given this placebo. And then they would check back later and
9 many, many times she would say she felt better.
10 Q. Okay. You experienced that personally?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. You made those observations?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Did she complain of any other pain, that you're aware of,
15 in terms of in any specific part of her body?
16 A. The headache stands out in my mind. I don't recall any
17 other.
18 Q. Specifically do you recall any complaints related to her
19 back?
20 A. She had had some back surgery, so I know she had had some
21 sporadic back pain, but it wasn't constant.
22 Q. Did you converse with your mother in 1995, converse back
23 and fourth?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. She was coherent?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Did she appear confused to you at times?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Did there come a time, around December of 1995, where
5 there was a necessity to move her from the care center?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Did you participate in any of those discussions with the
8 nursing home?
9 A. I don't recall that, only with my sister.
10 Q. Okay. So your sister primarily handled the care of your
11 mother as far as making the arrangements and things of that
12 nature?
13 A. She never made the decisions on her own. She would
14 always talk with us; but she was the person that communicated
15 with them.
16 Q. And your mother was subsequently transferred, as I
17 understand it, on the 28th day of December to the Davis North
18 Hospital?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. To the geropsych unit, is that correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did you go with her on that occasion?
23 A. I lived here in Davis County so my sister transported her
24 up and I met them at the hospital.
25 Q. So you were there on her admission to the geropsych unit?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And how was your mother acting at the time she came to
3 the geropsych unit?
4 A. No different than she had for the previous couple of
5 years.
6 Q. Okay. Did you remain with her throughout the admission
7 process?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And once admitted, did you have occasion after that to go
10 visit with her at the geropsych unit?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. How many times do you think, between the 28th of December
13 and the 7th of January, do you think you visited with your
14 mother?
15 A. As I recall, I visited with her every day.
16 Q. Can you describe for the jury, if you would, what
17 different changes you perceived in your mother's behavior
18 from the 28th until the 7th?
19 A. She was asleep a lot. If I woke her up she was still
20 very drowsy, so we wouldn't really have a conversation.
21 Q. Do you remember this specifically?
22 A. Do I remember this specifically?
23 Q. Yes.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Do you understand when this occurred, right at the
1 beginning or did it progress, this sleepiness?
2 A. I don't recall. The only time I recall her sitting up
3 and not being asleep is once or twice when she was in a group
4 type setting.
5 Q. Okay. So you went to a group type setting with her on
6 occasion?
7 A. Yes. I did slip in.
8 Q. Did you sit with her on those occasions?
9 A. I recall sitting beside her. I don't recall if it was
10 once or twice, but I do remember sitting beside her.
11 Q. Do you recall whether or not she participated in the
12 group session?
13 A. No, I don't. I didn't see her participate.
14 Q. Okay. Now, I want to call your attention to the date of
15 the 7th. Did you receive a telephone call on that date of
16 January 7th, 1996?
17 A. From my sister.
18 Q. I see. And what did you do as a result of that
19 conversation?
20 A. I went immediately to the hospital.
21 Q. Do you recall what time of day it was?
22 A. As I recall, I had just barely gotten home from work, so
23 around five, I would imagine, 5:30.
24 Q. Can you describe what your -- what the condition of your
25 mother was at the time you arrived at the hospital?
1 A. She was totally incoherent. I'm not a doctor, so I would
2 call her unconscious. She would take a breath and then it
3 would be a long period of time before she would take another
4 breath.
5 Q. Had your sister arrived at that time or was this before
6 your sister arrived?
7 A. That was before my sister arrived.
8 Q. So you observed this breathing pattern when you arrived
9 at the hospital?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Was there anybody attending to her at that time, any
12 nurses or physicians?
13 A. I don't recall anyone.
14 Q. Do you recall any discussions concerning what the problem
15 was, the nature of the problem, why she was breathing that
16 way?
17 A. My recollection is that my sister had told me that she
18 said she's had a stroke or something. They thought that she
19 wouldn't make it through the night.
20 Q. So the information you received was from your sister?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did you ever speak to any physicians that night?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Did you ever have occasion to observe anybody else speak
25 to a physician that night?
1 A. I observed my sister talk to a doctor.
2 Q. Okay. Was that doctor identified to you?
3 A. My sister --
4 Q. Do you know who it was?
5 A. My sister identified him to me. I'd never seen him.
6 Q. So she identified him as the defendant in this case?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. But you did not participate in that conversation?
9 A. No.
10 MR. WILSON: I have no further questions.
11 THE COURT: Cross-examine.
12 CROSS-EXAMINATION
13 BY MS. ISAACSON:
14 Q. Ms. Charlesworth, my name is Tara Isaacson. I'm one of
15 the attorneys representing Dr. Weitzel. I want to go back to
16 your mother's condition starting in 1989. At that time she
17 had a stroke, is that right?
18 A. She had a stroke in 1990.
19 Q. Okay. Excuse me. And at that point her health was so
20 bad that she could no longer live on her own?
21 A. Her physical health.
22 Q. Okay. So at that time --
23 A. It was her physical condition, yes. She couldn't because
24 of being in a wheelchair.
25 Q. So from 1990 on she was never able to live on her own?
1 A. Right, because she was in a wheelchair.
2 Q. And let's be clear about what her condition was in 1995.
3 She had gone from the regular nursing home into what is
4 actually called a special needs or Alzheimer's unit in the
5 nursing home?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And that was because her behavior was so out of control
8 that they simply could not deal with her in the regular unit?
9 A. No, I wouldn't say so out of control. She was a stubborn
10 woman and was not easily maintained. It was felt that it was
11 better to put her back there where there were more -- there
12 was more staff to help.
13 Q. Okay. Your testimony, when Mr. Wilson was asking you
14 some questions, was that it was your perception that really
15 during this time period she wasn't confused?
16 A. No, she wasn't confused. She never was diagnosed with
17 Alzheimer's.
18 Q. And you never observed any behavior problems?
19 A. No, I never did.
20 Q. And so when your mother was admitted and your sister
21 reported to the geropsych unit that she was hitting at the
22 nursing home, you don't know anything about that?
23 A. My sister reported what the nursing staff reported to
24 her.
25 Q. Okay. Let me tell you what the nursing staff described
1 and you tell me if you ever saw any of this. Did you ever
2 see your mother spitting at people?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Trying to manipulate people?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Hitting people?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Being verbally abusive?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Running into other people with her wheelchair?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Screaming?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Those are all behaviors that you never observed?
15 A. No.
16 Q. The nursing staff also indicated that she would stick her
17 fingers down her throat and try to throw up. Did you ever
18 observe any of that?
19 A. No.
20 Q. So from your perception your mother was fine?
21 A. Yeah.
22 Q. And you thought she should be able to stay at Sandy
23 Regional Medical Center?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. But in fact the staff said sorry, but we can't handle
1 her?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Is it true that your employment is with Adult Probation
4 and Parole?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And you actually work in this county?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And AP&P is an agency that works very closely with the
9 Davis County prosecutor, is that right?
10 A. I guess you could say that.
11 Q. So you work very closely with the people in that office?
12 A. I know them, if that's what you're getting at.
13 Q. I'd like to show you a document from the medical records.
14 Do you recall in March of 1994 your mother being taken to
15 Alta View Hospital emergency room complaining of chest pain?
16 A. I do recall her being taken to Alta View Hospital. I
17 don't recall the specific complaints.
18 Q. Do you know if you accompanied your mother to the
19 hospital?
20 A. I believe I did. I believe I was there when they brought
21 her.
22 Q. Let me show you what is marked as plaintiff's exhibit
23 P4A. That's going to come up on the screen.
24 THE COURT: You may move your chair to see better,
25 if you need to, Ms. Charlesworth.
1 Q. (BY MS. ISSACSON) This is a medical record from Alta
2 View Hospital from March of 1994. It is kind of small right
3 now, but I'll blow up a portion of it for you in a moment.
4 THE COURT: Is there a page number?
5 MS. ISSACSON: I'm sorry. P4A, NH 555.
6 Q. (BY MS. ISSACSON) There's an indication here -- there
7 was some discussion about taking some fluid from your mother
8 and testing it. It indicates that the daughters were advised
9 of the necessity of this and they have signed a permit. So
10 does that refresh your recollection that you may have had
11 some discussion with the emergency room doctor about that?
12 You may have been there discussing your mother's condition
13 with them?
14 A. I recall being there. I don't specifically recall that.
15 Q. In addition to the chest pain, apparently she was
16 complaining of a headache and the emergency room doctor
17 actually gives her morphine on that occasion. Do you recall
18 that?
19 A. I don't recall that.
20 Q. There's another sentence here from the emergency room
21 doctor that says the patient has a living will and doesn't
22 want any aggressive maneuvers performed if she should
23 deteriorate?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And would you agree that you and your sister, if your
1 mother deteriorated, did not want any aggressive maneuvers
2 performed?
3 A. Yes, according to my mother's desire.
4 Q. Now, were you aware that on admission to the geropsych
5 unit your mother rated her pain as five out of five?
6 A. I don't recall that, but that would sound typical of my
7 mother's rating.
8 Q. Let me show you what is marked as P4B, med 298. This is
9 a nursing assessment form where the nurse is asking your
10 mother, and presumably your sister, some questions. And asks
11 your mother, again, to rate her pain. There's an indication
12 of five. You said that that doesn't surprise you at all?
13 A. It doesn't. I'm just not sure why her pain was rated
14 when she was admitted there for mental medication.
15 Q. Well, maybe I can -- when your mother came into the
16 hospital a nurse sat down with your mother and with --
17 perhaps with you. Were you there?
18 A. I was there during the admission.
19 Q. And she would have -- the nurse would have wanted to know
20 everything she could about your mother so she would have
21 asked you, your mother and your sister, all sorts of
22 questions. And an important thing to know is if was she in
23 any pain?
24 A. Uh-huh.
25 Q. Had she ever fallen. And apparently either your mother,
1 or one of you, indicated that she'd fallen frequently. She
2 also would have asked you or your mother does she have a
3 history of back pain. Yes. Also a hip fracture. I guess
4 actually a pelvic fracture. But between the three of you you
5 would have all indicated that this was the case?
6 A. Uh-huh.
7 Q. And your mother rated it a five?
8 A. Uh-huh.
9 Q. You think it may have been inappropriate for the nurse to
10 be asking as to whether or not she was in pain?
11 A. Well, I guess I'm anticipating what you're trying to get
12 at.
13 Q. Do you think it was inappropriate for a nurse at the
14 geropsych unit to ask your mother if she was in pain?
15 A. I questioned that. It was a mental health facility.
16 Q. If your mother was in pain, did you want her to stay in
17 pain?
18 A. My mother had certain prescriptions that she was
19 prescribed by her regular doctor. She wasn't there to be
20 treated for pain. She was there to be treated for her mental
21 problems.
22 Q. If the nursing staff thought she was in pain -- if she
23 reported to them that she was in pain and they thought she
24 was in pain, would you want that pain treated?
25 A. According to her regular medical doctor I would have
1 wanted it treated. She wasn't there for pain control.
2 Q. If a nurse perceived that she was in pain, did you want
3 her treated for pain?
4 A. I don't know that they knew her well enough to perceive
5 whether she was in pain or not. Her regular doctor could do
6 that.
7 MS. ISSACSON: That's all I have.
8 THE COURT: Redirect?
9 MR. WILSON: I have no further questions.
10 THE COURT: You may step down. May this witness be
11 excused?
12 MR. WILSON: She may, Your Honor.
13 MS. ISSACSON: Yes, Your Honor.
14 THE COURT: Thank you.