Marcel Bibeault
17 MARCEL BIBEAULT,
18 CALLED BY THE PLAINTIFF, HAVING BEEN DULY
19 SWORN, WAS EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
20 DIRECT EXAMINATION
21 BY MR. MAJOR:
22 Q. WILL YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND SPELL YOUR LAST NAME
23 FOR THE RECORD?
24 A. MY NAME IS MARCEL BIBEAULT. THE LAST NAME IS SPELLED
25 B-I-B-E-A-U-L-T. BIBEAULT.
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1 Q. AND, MR. BIBEAULT, WHERE ARE YOU CURRENTLY EMPLOYED?
2 A. I AM EMPLOYED FOR THE STATE OF UTAH AT THE STATE HEALTH
3 LABORATORY.
4 Q. AND WHAT ARE YOUR DUTIES THERE AT THE STATE LABORATORY?
5 A. I AM A TOXICOLOGIST.
6 Q. AND WHAT EXACTLY DOES A TOXICOLOGIST DO?
7 A. I EXAMINE TISSUES, BLOOD, URINE AND OTHER TISSUES FOR
8 THE PRESENCE OF DRUGS.
9 Q. AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN DOING THAT?
10 A. FOR THE STATE OF UTAH I'VE BEEN EMPLOYED FOR 11 YEARS.
11 I WAS ALSO A CLINICAL TOXICOLOGIST PRIOR TO THAT FOR FIVE
12 YEARS.
13 Q. AND CAN YOU EXPLAIN JUST BRIEFLY TO THE JURY HOW YOU GO
14 ABOUT DOING THIS, HOW YOU DO THE DETECTIONS?
15 A. THERE'S BASICALLY TWO STEPS. THE FIRST STEP IS TO
16 PREPARE THE TISSUE, WHETHER IT BE BLOOD OR URINE OR OTHER
17 KINDS OF TISSUE, BY EXTRACTING -- BY MIXING IT WITH
18 CHEMICALS TO EXTRACT OUT DRUGS FROM THE TISSUE. THE SECOND
19 STEP IS TO THEN TAKE THE SOLVENT AND PUT IT INTO
20 INSTRUMENTS, VARIOUS KINDS OF INSTRUMENTS, THAT DETECT WHICH
21 KIND OF DRUGS.
22 Q. YOU RECALL RECEIVING SOME TISSUE SAMPLES FROM AN
23 INDIVIDUAL BY THE NAME OF JUDITH LARSEN?
24 A. YES, I DO.
25 Q. DO YOU REMEMBER APPROXIMATELY WHEN THAT WAS?
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1 A. I RECEIVED THE TISSUES ON JUNE 24 OF LAST YEAR.
2 Q. AND WHO DID YOU RECEIVE THOSE TISSUE SAMPLES FROM?
3 A. FROM THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE.
4 Q. WHAT TYPE OF SAMPLES DID YOU RECEIVE?
5 A. I RECEIVED THE FOLLOWING TISSUES. LIVER, KIDNEY, BILE,
6 MUSCLE, BRAIN, SPLEEN, HEART AND LUNG.
7 Q. JUST BRIEFLY, YOU RECEIVED PORTIONS OF THOSE?
8 A. PORTIONS OF THOSE TISSUES, YES.
9 Q. AND WHAT TEST DID YOU RUN ON THOSE SAMPLES?
10 A. I RAN SCREENING TESTS AND ALSO RAN QUANTITATIVE TESTS OR
11 FAIRLY SPECIFIC TESTS LOOKING FOR THE PRESENCE OF MORPHINE.
12 Q. DID YOU RUN THOSE TESTS AS YOU HAVE BEEN TRAINED AND
13 YOUR EXPERIENCE DICTATES?
14 A. YES.
15 Q. AND WHAT, IF ANY, RESULTS DID YOU OBTAIN?
16 A. ON THIS PARTICULAR CASE, JUDITH LARSEN, WE HAD POSITIVE
17 RESULT FOR MORPHINE IN THE LIVER TISSUE. AND THE MEDICAL
18 RESULT IS 0.O9 MILLIGRAMS PER LITER. AND THE BILE WAS ALSO
19 POSITIVE FOR MORPHINE AT THE LEVEL OF 0.28 MILLIGRAMS PER
20 LITER.
21 MR. MAJOR: THANK YOU. WE HAVE NO FURTHER
22 QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.
23 THE COURT: MR. STIRBA.
24 CROSS-EXAMINATION
25 BY MR. STIRBA:
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1 Q. DID YOU ALSO DO A SIMILAR TOXICOLOGY TEST WITH RESPECT
2 TO ANY TISSUES INVOLVING MARY CRANE?
3 A. YES, I DID.
4 Q. DID YOU SIMILARLY DO TOXICOLOGY TESTS WITH RESPECT TO
5 ELLEN ANDERSON?
6 A. YES.
7 Q. AND HOW ABOUT LYDIA SMITH?
8 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
9 Q. AND ENNIS ALLDREDGE?
10 A. THAT'S ALSO CORRECT.
11 Q. SO YOU ARE THE FELLOW THAT DID IT, DID YOU?
12 A. I DID TESTING ON ALL THOSE CASES, YES.
13 Q. OKAY. WITH RESPECT TO -- DID YOU ENGAGE IN A SIMILAR
14 PROCESS WITH RESPECT TO THE OTHER FOUR AS YOU DID WITH MISS
15 LARSEN?
16 A. YES.
17 Q. AND IN FACT, THAT TEST WAS DESIGNED OR DONE SPECIFICALLY
18 TO ISOLATE OUT ULTIMATELY MORPHINE; IS THAT RIGHT?
19 A. ONE OF THE TESTS --
20 Q. RIGHT. YOU HAVE A FIRST TEST TO SCREEN OUT OPIATES,
21 TRUE?
22 A. YES.
23 THE COURT: YOU ARE BOTH TALKING AT THE SAME TIME.
24 THE WITNESS: THAT'S CORRECT.
25 Q. (BY MR. STIRBA) AND THEN AFTER YOU DO THAT PRELIMINARY
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1 SCREEN THERE'S ANOTHER TEST THAT IS DESIGNED TO ISOLATE OUT
2 IF YOU HAVE SOME KIND OF FINDING, OR DETECTABLE FINDING, OF
3 OPIATES TO SCREEN OUT MORPHINE; IS THAT TRUE?
4 A. THAT'S TRUE.
5 Q. AND IT'S TRUE, IS IT NOT, THAT WITH RESPECT TO MARY
6 CRANE THERE WAS NO SUCH FINDING OF MORPHINE IN THE TISSUE
7 SAMPLES YOU TESTED?
8 A. THAT'S TRUE.
9 Q. AND IT'S TRUE, IS IT NOT, WITH RESPECT TO LYDIA SMITH
10 THERE WAS NO MORPHINE FINDING IN THE TISSUES THAT YOU
11 TESTED?
12 A. YES.
13 Q. AND IT'S TRUE, IS IT NOT, WITH RESPECT TO ELLEN ANDERSON
14 YOU MADE SOME MORPHINE FINDING WITH RESPECT TO THE TISSUES
15 YOU SAMPLED?
16 A. THAT'S TRUE.
17 Q. AND SIMILARLY, WITH RESPECT TO MR. ALLDREDGE, YOU MADE
18 NO SUCH FINDING OF MORPHINE IN THE TISSUES THAT YOU SAMPLED?
19 A. THAT'S TRUE.
20 MR. STIRBA: THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
21 THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER OF THIS WITNESS?
22 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
23 BY MR. MAJOR:
24 Q. JUST ONE QUICK QUESTION. YOU ARE ALSO AWARE OF THE
25 CONDITION OF THESE FIVE INDIVIDUALS, ARE YOU NOT?
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1 A. YES.
2 Q. THE FACT THEY HAVE BEEN EMBALMED AND INTERRED FOR A
3 PERIOD OF TIME?
4 A. YES.
5 Q. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE EFFECT OF THE EMBALMING OR
6 INTERMENT WOULD HAVE ON YOUR ABILITY TO DETECT THESE DRUGS?
7 A. I DON'T KNOW.
8 MR. MAJOR: WE HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
9 RECROSS-EXAMINATION
10 BY MR. STIRBA:
11 Q. IN FACT, IT'S TRUE, IS IT NOT, THAT WITH RESPECT TO THE
12 FINDING YOU MADE CONCERNING MISS LARSEN, GIVEN THE NATURE OF
13 THE CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER WHICH THE TISSUES WERE PRESENTED AND
14 THE FACT THAT THERE HAD BEEN AN EMBALMING PROCESS, THOSE
15 FINDINGS YOU COULD NOT SAY CORRELATE TO ANY REAL VALUES
16 GIVEN AT THE TIME THAT SHE WAS ALIVE; IS THAT RIGHT?
17 A. I CAN'T MAKE AN INTERPRETATION BASED ON THE TISSUE, YOU
18 KNOW, THE CONDITION OF THE TISSUE.
19 Q. AND BY CONDITION YOU MEAN THE FACT THAT THERE HAD BEEN
20 INTERMENT AND EMBALMING; IS THAT RIGHT?
21 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
22 Q. AND SO YOU HAVE A FINDING, BUT YOU JUST CAN'T CORRELATE
23 THAT AS TO WHAT IT MEANS; IS THAT CORRECT?
24 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
25 MR. STIRBA: THANK YOU. NOTHING FURTHER.
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1 MR. MAJOR: NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.
2 THE COURT: MAY THIS WITNESS BE EXCUSED?
3 MR. MAJOR: HE MAY.