Paul Jensen, MD

7                        PAUL R. JENSEN,
       8           CALLED BY THE PLAINTIFF, HAVING BEEN DULY
       9         SWORN, WAS EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
      10                      DIRECT EXAMINATION
      11    BY MR. MAJOR:
      12    Q.  WOULD YOU STATE YOUR NAME AND OCCUPATION?
      13    A.  MY NAME IS PAUL R. JENSEN.  I'M A DIAGNOSTIC
      14    RADIOLOGIST.
      15    Q.  AND WHAT IS A DIAGNOSTIC RADIOLOGIST?
      16    A.  A PHYSICIAN WHO INTERPRETS X-RAYS.
      17    Q.  AND WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT INTERPRETING X-RAYS, WHAT DOES
      18    THAT INCLUDE?
      19    A.  THAT INCLUDES INVOLVEMENT IN EVALUATING PLAIN FILMS,
      20    ULTRASOUND, M.R.I., C.T. NUCLEAR MEDICINE EXAMS AS WELL AS
      21    PERFORMING THINGS SUCH AS ARTERIOGRAPHY.
      22    Q.  WHAT IS THAT?
      23    A.  WELL, THAT'S WHERE WE PERFORM ANGIOGRAMS AND THINGS LIKE
      24    THAT.  THE SCHOOLING REQUIRED IS I PERSONALLY WENT TO WEBER
      25    STATE.  GRADUATED FROM WEBER STATE IN 1981.  AFTER THAT I


                                                                       1817



       1    SPENT FOUR YEARS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF UTAH TO GET MY M.D.
       2    DEGREE.  AND THEN AFTER THAT I SPENT A YEAR OF INTERNSHIP AT
       3    HENNEPIN COUNTY MEDICAL CENTER IN MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA AND
       4    FOUR YEARS DIAGNOSTIC RADIOLOGY RESIDENCY AT THE UNIVERSITY
       5    OF MINNESOTA IN MINNEAPOLIS, SO 13 YEARS OF COLLEGE.
       6    Q.  WHERE ARE YOU CURRENTLY EMPLOYED?
       7    A.  CURRENTLY EMPLOYED WITH ASSOCIATES IN RADIOLOGY WHICH
       8    COVERS DAVIS HOSPITAL AND OGDEN REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER.
       9    Q.  HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN THERE?
      10    A.  TEN YEARS.
      11    Q.  AND HAVE YOUR DUTIES BASICALLY INCLUDED WHAT YOU'VE JUST
      12    DISCUSSED?
      13    A.  CORRECT.
      14    Q.  AND WHAT'S INVOLVED IN DOING THAT?
      15    A.  WELL, LET'S FOCUS IN ON WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH HERE
      16    WHICH IS C.T. SCANNING.  C.T. SCANNING IS KIND OF LIKE A
      17    VERY LARGE DONUT THAT TAKES A CROSS-SECTIONAL X-RAY PICTURES
      18    OF PEOPLE.  AND WHAT'S INVOLVED WITH THAT IS THAT THERE'S
      19    USUALLY A PATIENT WHO IS BROUGHT INTO THE C.T. SCANNING ROOM
      20    AND PLACED ON THE TABLE AND A TECHNOLOGIST PERFORMS THE
      21    EXAMINATION, ACTUALLY MAKES THE PICTURES.  THOSE PICTURES
      22    ARE THEN GENERATED AND THEN BROUGHT TO ME AS THE RADIOLOGIST
      23    AND I LOOK AT THEM AND INTERPRET THEM AND MAKE AN
      24    INTERPRETATION OF WHAT THOSE PICTURES MEAN FOR THE
      25    PHYSICIANS.


                                                                       1818



       1    Q.  AND YOU DO A REPORT BASED ON THE INTERPRETATION?
       2    A.  CORRECT.
       3    Q.  AND HOW ARE THE PATIENTS -- HOW DO THE PATIENTS COME TO
       4    YOU TO DO THIS?
       5    A.  USUALLY IT KIND OF DEPENDS. IF THEY ARE OUTPATIENTS THEY
       6    WILL USUALLY COME TO THE DEPARTMENT, GO TO THE FRONT DESK
       7    AND CHECK IN AND A TECHNOLOGIST WILL GREET THEM AND TAKE
       8    THEM BACK TO THE C.T. SCAN AND TAKE THEM BACK.
       9         ON THE BASIS OF AN INPATIENT EXAMINATION, WHERE THEY
      10    WERE ALREADY IN THE HOSPITAL, THERE'S AN AID OR POTENTIALLY
      11    A TECHNOLOGIST HIMSELF, WILL GET THE PATIENT, EITHER ON A
      12    WHEELCHAIR OR GURNEY, BRING THEM DOWN, SCAN THEM AND THEN
      13    TAKE THEM BACK.
      14    Q.  AND HOW ARE THESE PATIENTS REFERRED TO YOU?
      15    A.  THE REFERRALS COME FROM OTHER PHYSICIANS.  OTHER
      16    PHYSICIANS WRITE AN ORDER IN THE CHART OR THEY SEND AN ORDER
      17    WITH A PATIENT TO HAVE AN EXAM PERFORMED.  THOSE GO TO THE
      18    FRONT DESK AND THEN THAT GETS SCHEDULED.
      19    Q.  ARE YOU MADE AWARE OF THOSE REQUESTS, WHAT THEY WERE
      20    LOOKING FOR?
      21    A.  THE REQUESTS USUALLY END UP -- FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF
      22    THE TIME THE REQUESTS ARE WITH THE EXAM AFTER IT'S ALL DONE.
      23    OCCASIONALLY THE DOCTORS WILL CALL AND CONSULT AND SAY,
      24    OKAY, WHAT TESTS SHOULD I DO OR WHAT KIND OF TEST WOULD BE
      25    THE MOST APPROPRIATE.  OR, I HAVE THIS PATIENT THAT HAS


                                                                       1819



       1    THESE UNUSUAL CHARACTERISTICS OR UNUSUAL SYMPTOMS AND JUST
       2    SO YOU KNOW ABOUT IT WHEN YOU DO THE INTERPRETATION.  BUT
       3    THAT'S A MINORITY OF THE TIME.  MOST OF THE TIME IT'S SENT,
       4    WRITTEN OR PUT IN THE COMPUTER AND THEN IT JUST COMES UP
       5    WITH THE REQUEST.  AND THEN THE FILMS AND REQUEST ARE HANDED
       6    TO US AND WE DO THE INTERPRETATION.
       7    Q.  ARE YOU OFTEN ASKED TO CHECK PATIENTS FOR POSSIBLE
       8    STROKE?
       9    A.  YES.  THAT'S A VERY COMMON CASE FOR C.T.
      10    Q.  HOW OFTEN?
      11    A.  I WOULD SAY SOMEWHERE IN THE RANGE OF A FOURTH TO A
      12    THIRD OF THE HEAD C.T.'S THAT WE DO ARE DEALING WITH STROKE
      13    PATIENTS OR PATIENTS WHO ARE QUESTIONING OF STROKE.
      14    Q.  WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR WHEN YOU DO THESE?
      15    A.  IN THE INSTANCE OF STROKE, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING
      16    WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS PRESENCE OR ABSENCE OF INTRACRANIAL
      17    HEMORRHAGE.  THE REFERRING DOCTOR NEEDS TO KNOW SO THAT
      18    BECAUSE IF THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT THE STROKE, ONE OF THE
      19    MAIN THINGS THEY NEED TO DO IS TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT THEY
      20    WANT TO PERFORM ANTICOAGULANT THERAPY OR NOT.
      21    Q.  WHAT'S THAT?
      22    A.  THAT'S WHEN THEY PUT BLOOD THINNERS.  IF THERE'S A CLOT
      23    IN YOUR BRAIN THAT'S BLOCKING THE BLOOD FLOW THEY PUT YOU ON
      24    BLOOD THINNERS AND HOPEFULLY THAT WILL BREAK UP THE CLOT AND
      25    THE STROKE WILL BE SUBSTANTIALLY MINIMIZED OR EVEN GO AWAY.


                                                                       1820



       1    IF THERE'S BLEEDING IN THE HEAD ALREADY, YOU DON'T WANT TO
       2    THIN THAT PERSON'S BLOOD BECAUSE IT WILL MAKE THE BLEEDING
       3    WORSE AND YOU'LL END UP WITH A WORSE SITUATION THAN YOU
       4    STARTED WITH.  THE OTHER IMPORTANT THING THEY ARE LOOKING
       5    FOR --
       6             MR. STIRBA:  YOUR HONOR, IF I MAY INTERRUPT.  I
       7    THINK THIS IS IRRELEVANT.  HE'S NOT HERE AS AN EXPERT AND I
       8    JUST QUESTION THE RELEVANCY.
       9             THE COURT:  LET'S JUST GET THE BACKGROUND.
      10             MR. MAJOR:  IT IS FOUNDATIONAL, YOUR HONOR.
      11             THE WITNESS:  THE OTHER THING THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR
      12    THEM TO KNOW, THERE'S ANOTHER REASON BESIDES A STROKE THAT
      13    COULD ACCOUNT FOR THE PATIENT'S SYMPTOMS.  FOR EXAMPLE, A
      14    MASS LESION OR TUMOR OR BIG INTRACRANIAL HEMORRHAGE THAT'S
      15    PUSHING ON THE BRAIN OR SOME OTHER REASON THAT WOULD ACCOUNT
      16    FOR THE PATIENT HAVING SYMPTOMS SUCH AS STROKE BUT IT'S NOT
      17    A STROKE.  SO THOSE ARE THE TWO MAIN THINGS THEY DO C.T.'S.
      18    FOR.
      19    Q.  AFTER YOU PERFORM THESE M.R.I.'S, DO YOU USUALLY CONSULT
      20    WITH THE ATTENDING PHYSICIANS?
      21    A.  IT WILL DEPEND UPON THE SITUATION.
      22             MR. STIRBA:  I'M GOING TO OBJECT, YOUR HONOR.
      23    RELEVANCY?
      24             THE COURT:  LET'S KIND OF FOCUS ON THIS CASE.
      25             MR. MAJOR:  WE ARE, YOUR HONOR.  THAT'S WHERE WE


                                                                       1821



       1    ARE GOING.  THIS IS FOUNDATION.  MAY I PROCEED?
       2             THE COURT:  GO AHEAD.
       3    Q.  (BY MR. MAJOR)  WHAT TYPES OF THINGS DO YOU NORMALLY
       4    CONSULT WITH?
       5    A.  IF IT'S AN ACUTE SITUATION IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM, THEN
       6    WE'LL USUALLY CALL THOSE RESULTS.  IF IT'S SOMETHING WITH AN
       7    INPATIENT, SOMETIMES WE WILL AND SOMETIMES WE WON'T CALL A
       8    REPORT, DEPENDING UPON THE SITUATION.  BUT IN GENERAL, AND A
       9    LOT OF TIMES IN A CASE OF RULING OUT C.V.A., THE MAJORITY OF
      10    TIMES THEY ARE COMING THROUGH THE EMERGENCY ROOM AND WE WILL
      11    CALL AND GIVE THEM A VERBAL REPORT.
      12             THE COURT:  BOTH OF YOU SLOW DOWN AND PAUSE BEFORE
      13    ONE FINISHES THE QUESTION AND ONE FINISHES THE ANSWER
      14    BECAUSE YOU BOTH TALK FAST AND IF THE COURT REPORTER DIES,
      15    THAT'S ALL WE HAVE.
      16             THE WITNESS:  IN MOST INSTANCES WHEN THEY'RE COMING
      17    THROUGH THE EMERGENCY ROOM THEY WILL BE -- THERE WILL BE AN
      18    ORAL REPORT GIVEN IN ADDITION TO THE WRITTEN REPORT.  IN
      19    THIS INSTANCE, THIS PATIENT WAS AN INPATIENT SO I AM UNSURE
      20    WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS AN ORAL REPORT GIVEN ON TOP OF THE
      21    WRITTEN REPORT.
      22    Q.  (BY MR. MAJOR)  IF YOU WERE TO DETERMINE THAT A PATIENT
      23    HAD AN ACUTE OR A SERIOUS PROBLEM, WHAT WOULD YOUR NORMAL
      24    PROCEDURE BE?
      25             MR. STIRBA:  I OBJECT.  RELEVANCY, YOUR HONOR.


                                                                       1822



       1             THE COURT:  SUSTAINED.
       2             MR. MAJOR:  YOUR HONOR, MIGHT I --
       3             THE COURT:  NO.  LET'S GO TO WHAT HE DID.
       4    Q.  (BY MR. MAJOR)  OKAY.  AS PART OF YOUR TRAINING AND
       5    EXPERIENCE, DO YOU ALSO LOOK AT OTHER M.R.I.'S FROM THE SAME
       6    PATIENT?
       7    A.  CORRECT.
       8    Q.  COMPARE THOSE?
       9    A.  YES.
      10    Q.  AND YOU ARE TRAINED IN DOING THAT?
      11    A.  YES.
      12    Q.  LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT'S BEEN MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS
      13    PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 6, SPECIFICALLY PAGE 00489, AND
      14    ASK YOU IF YOU CAN IDENTIFY THAT?
      15    A.  THIS IS A C.T. REPORT THAT I PERFORMED ON 12/26/95 ON A
      16    PATIENT, JUDITH LARSEN.
      17    Q.  DO YOU RECALL THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF HOW YOU CAME TO
      18    PERFORM THIS?
      19    A.  I DON'T PERSONALLY RECALL, NO.
      20    Q.  BUT YOU DO HAVE A RECOLLECTION OF ACTUALLY PERFORMING
      21    THIS PARTICULAR M.R.I.?
      22    A.  THIS PARTICULAR C.T., NO.
      23    Q.  BUT BASED ON YOUR RECORDS, THAT REFRESHES YOUR MEMORY?
      24    A.  YES.
      25    Q.  CAN YOU BRIEFLY GO THROUGH AND EXPLAIN WHAT YOU DID AND


                                                                       1823



       1    WHAT THE RESULTS WERE?
       2    A.  THIS IS A C.T. SCAN OF A HEAD.  AS WE TALKED BEFORE, A
       3    C.T. SCAN IS A VERY LARGE DONUT-LOOKING MACHINE THAT TAKES
       4    CROSS-SECTIONAL SLICES THROUGH PEOPLE AND THEN LAYS THOSE
       5    OUT SO WE CAN LOOK AT PEOPLE.  THE HISTORY ON THIS ONE IS
       6    PSYCHOSIS AND RULE OUT BLEED.
       7    Q.  WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
       8    A.  THAT MEANS THAT'S THE INFORMATION THAT I HAD BEEN GIVEN
       9    BY THE REFERRING PHYSICIAN, OR HAD BEEN TYPED INTO THE
      10    COMPUTER, AS FAR AS WHY WE'RE DOING THIS STUDY.
      11    Q.  SO YOU ARE LOOKING FOR BLEEDING INSIDE THE CRANIUM?
      12    A.  CORRECT.  MULTIPLE AXIAL SCANS ARE OBTAINED THROUGH THE
      13    HEAD IS BASICALLY A DESCRIPTION OF HOW WE PERFORM THE
      14    EXAMINATION.  VENTRICLES AND SULCI FROM -- VENTRICLES AND
      15    SULCI ARE VERY PROMINENT, CONSISTENT WITH CEREBRAL ATROPHY.
      16    Q.  WHAT WAS VENTRICLES, EXPLAIN THAT?
      17    A.  VENTRICLES ARE THE POCKETS IN YOUR BRAIN THAT HAVE FLUID
      18    IN THEM.  AND AS YOU AGE THEY CAN TEND TO GET LARGE.  AND
      19    THE SAME THING WITH THE CONVOLUTIONAL MARKINGS ON THE TOP OF
      20    YOUR HEAD.  THOSE ARE CALLED GYRI.  AND THEN THE DIPS
      21    BETWEEN THOSE PARTICULAR LUMPS ARE CALLED SULCI.  AND THOSE
      22    AREAS CAN BECOME PROMINENT AS THE BRAIN GETS SMALLER WITH
      23    AGE OR ATROPHIES.
      24    Q.  THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE SAYING HERE IS THE BRAIN IS
      25    GETTING SMALLER?


                                                                       1824



       1    A.  IS GETTING OLD, YES.
       2    Q.  IS THAT SIGNIFICANT AT ALL?
       3    A.  IN THIS AGE, NO.  ACTUALLY THAT WOULD BE KIND OF
       4    EXPECTED.  SO THAT'S NOT UNUSUAL.
       5    Q.  WHAT WAS THE NEXT THING WE DO?
       6    A.  ALSO IDENTIFIED IS DECREASED DENSITY IN THE LEFT FRONTAL
       7    LOBE WHICH MAY REFLECT A SUBACUTE INSULT/C.V.A.
       8    Q.  WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
       9    A.  C.V.A., CEREBROVASCULAR ACCIDENT OR STROKE.  THAT'S A
      10    FANCY NAME FOR A STROKE.  LOW DENSITY INDICATES MORE OF A
      11    CHRONIC-TYPE PROCESS.  WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH STROKES IN
      12    PATIENTS, THE MOST COMMON INITIAL FINDING WITHIN THE FIRST,
      13    SAY, 12 HOURS IS THAT YOU'LL SEE NOTHING ON A C.T. SCAN.
      14    AFTER THAT YOU MAY SEE SUBTLE CHANGES IN THE GRAY WHITE
      15    INTERFACE IN THE BRAIN.  THOSE WOULD INDICATE SOMETHING
      16    SUBACUTE OR WITHIN, SAY, 12 TO 48 HOURS.  THEN, AS TIME GOES
      17    ON OVER WEEKS AND MONTHS, THAT BRAIN SUBSTANCE BASICALLY
      18    GOES AWAY AND IS FILLED IN WITH FLUID OR THE C.S.F.,
      19    CEREBRAL SPINAL FLUID.  AND THAT INDICATES MORE OF A CHRONIC
      20    PROCESS OR THAT'S AN OLD PROBLEM, NOT A NEW PROBLEM.
      21    Q.  IS THAT WHAT WE'RE FINDING HERE THEN?
      22    A.  THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING HERE WITH REGARD TO THE
      23    LEFT FRONTAL LOBE.
      24    Q.  THAT'S AN OLD SUBACUTE WHICH MEANS OLDER?
      25    A.  SUBACUTE IS ANYTHING FROM LIKE SOMETHING FROM 12 HOURS


                                                                       1825



       1    TO ANYWHERE -- DAYS TO WEEKS.  AND THEN THE NEXT SENTENCE IS
       2    ALSO IDENTIFIED AS SOME VASCULAR CALCIFICATIONS, WHICH IS
       3    ALSO VERY COMMON IN SOMEONE THIS AGE GROUP.  THEY GET
       4    CALCIFICATIONS IN THEIR ARTERIES.  THERE'S NO EVIDENCE OF
       5    MIDLINE SHIFT, WHICH MEANS THERE'S NO PUSHING OF THE BRAIN
       6    BY SOME PROCESS, EITHER A BIG MASS IN THE BRAIN OR SOME KIND
       7    OF A TUMOR OR SOME TYPE OF A CRANIAL, INTRACRANIAL
       8    HEMORRHAGE.  THOSE KINDS OF THINGS ARE NOT VISIBLE ON THIS
       9    EXAM.
      10    Q.  WHAT ELSE DID YOU DO?
      11    A.  THE NEXT, NO EVIDENCE OF INTRACRANIAL HEMORRHAGE.
      12    THAT'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS.  WE'RE RULING OUT A BLEED AND
      13    WE SAY NO, THERE'S NO BLEED.
      14    Q.  AND AS TO ANYTHING ELSE?
      15    A.  ALSO THERE IS A SECONDARY IN THE OCCIPITAL LOBE OF THE
      16    BRAIN WHICH ALSO SHOWS THAT LOW DENSITY, SUGGESTING AN OLD
      17    STROKE.
      18    Q.  WHERE IS THE OCCIPITAL?
      19    A.  IN THE BACK OF YOUR HEAD.
      20    Q.  THANK YOU.  AND ANYTHING ELSE?
      21    A.  THEN IN THE IMPRESSION BASICALLY I RESTATE WHAT I SAID.
      22    BUT I ALSO ADDED THAT THERE'S ALSO SOME SUBTLE CHANGES IN
      23    THE LEFT FRONTAL REGION WHICH MAY REFLECT WHAT WE CALL
      24    LUXURY OF PROFUSION.
      25    Q.  WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?


                                                                       1826



       1    A.  THAT MEANS AN AREA THAT'S HAD MORE OF A POTENTIAL RECENT
       2    STROKE AND MAY HAVE AN AREA OF INCREASED BLOOD FLOW TO THAT
       3    AREA.  AND WHERE THAT INCREASED BLOOD FLOW GOES IN THAT
       4    REGION IT LOOKS MORE DENSE THAN IT MAY LOOK ON JUST A BASIC
       5    NORMAL EXAM.  BECAUSE THESE ARE KINDS OF QUESTIONABLE
       6    THINGS.  IT'S A QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT IT MIGHT BE THERE
       7    OR NOT.  IT'S NOT A HARD AND FAST FINDING.
       8    Q.  IS THERE ANYTHING BASED ON THIS SCAN THAT YOU DID THAT
       9    INDICATED TO YOU THERE'S AN ACUTE PROBLEM HERE?
      10    A.  THERE MAY BE A SUBACUTE PROBLEM WITH REGARD TO THE
      11    INCREASED DENSITY, BUT I DO NOT SEE ANY EVIDENCE OF ACUTE
      12    INTRACRANIAL HEMORRHAGE WHICH THEY ARE TRYING TO RULE OUT.
      13    Q.  ANY TYPE OF LIFE THREATENING CONDITION THAT YOU CAN SEE?
      14    A.  NOT THAT I CAN SEE, BASED ON THAT REPORT, NO.
      15    Q.  LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT'S BEEN MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION, A
      16    COPY, AS DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 17 AND ASK YOU TO TURN
      17    TO PAGE 00035.  YOU'VE HAD A -- DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT THAT
      18    IS?
      19    A.  THIS IS A C.T. EXAMINATION REPORT DATED 1/14/95 FROM
      20    L.D.S. HOSPITAL.
      21    Q.  AND IT REPRESENTS THIS IS ALSO DONE ON JUDITH LARSEN,
      22    CORRECT?
      23    A.  CORRECT.
      24    Q.  DID YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO -- PRIOR TO COMING TO
      25    COURT TODAY DID YOU REVIEW THAT?


                                                                       1827



       1             MR. STIRBA:  I'M GOING TO OBJECT, YOUR HONOR.  HE'S
       2    NOT HERE AS AN EXPERT.  THIS ISN'T HIS REPORT.  HE DIDN'T DO
       3    IT.
       4             MR. MAJOR:  YOUR HONOR, IF I MIGHT RESPOND TO THAT?
       5             THE COURT:  OKAY.  IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE WE CAN
       6    DEAL WITH?
       7             MR. MAJOR:  NO.  THIS WILL BE THE LAST AREA WE'RE
       8    GETTING INTO, YOUR HONOR.
       9             THE COURT:  OKAY.  LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I GUESS WE
      10    MAY HAVE TO TAKE A REAL SHORT BREAK.  THIS IS JUST A WAY TO
      11    KEEP YOU AWAKE.  AND SO IF YOU WILL JUST GO OUT.  IF YOU
      12    WANT TO GO OUTSIDE FOR A FEW MINUTES, I'LL HAVE THE BAILIFF
      13    CALL YOU IN WHEN IT'S TIME TO COME IN.  DURING THAT TIME YOU
      14    ARE NOT TO CONVERSE AMONG YOURSELVES OR CONVERSE WITH OR
      15    ALLOW YOURSELVES TO BE ADDRESSED BY ANY OTHER PERSON
      16    REGARDING THE SUBJECT OF THIS TRIAL.  AND IT'S YOUR DUTY NOT
      17    TO FORM OR EXPRESS AN OPINION UNTIL YOU'VE HEARD ALL THE
      18    EVIDENCE AND THE CASE IS FINALLY SUBMITTED TO YOU.  SO WE'LL
      19    LET YOU KNOW WHEN YOU CAN COME BACK.
      20             (JURY LEAVES THE COURTROOM.)
      21             THE COURT:  YOU MAY BE SEATED.  THE RECORD WILL
      22    REFLECT THAT THE JURY HAS LEFT THE COURTROOM.  OKAY.  WHAT
      23    IS GOING TO BE THE QUESTION OF THIS WITNESS?  FIRST OF ALL,
      24    WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO ASK?
      25             MR. MAJOR:  YOUR HONOR, WHAT WE INTENDED TO ASK, AS


                                                                       1828



       1    A PROFFER, THESE ARE DEFENDANT'S DOCUMENTS.  THEY HAVE BEEN
       2    INTRODUCED INTO EVIDENCE.  THEY HAVE BEEN TESTIFIED TO BY
       3    DR. STEVENS AND DR. PEARCE.  THEY WERE CROSS-EXAMINED
       4    CONCERNING THOSE DOCUMENTS.  THEY HAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH
       5    THIS TRIAL INTRODUCING THESE, USING THESE DOCUMENTS, MEDICAL
       6    RECORDS AND SO FORTH.  WE'VE HAD NURSES READING OTHER
       7    NURSES' NOTES AND SO FORTH AND INTERPRETING THEM.
       8         DR. JENSEN IS A DOCTOR WHO IS FAMILIAR WITH
       9    INTERPRETING THESE TYPES OF REPORTS.  I BELIEVE HE HAS A
      10    RIGHT TO SAY I'VE LOOKED AT THIS DOCUMENT.  I'VE COMPARED IT
      11    WITH THE ONE I DID ON DECEMBER 26 AND I FIND NO SIGNIFICANT
      12    CHANGES FROM HER CONDITION WHEN IT WAS GIVEN ON JANUARY TO
      13    WHEN IT WAS GIVEN ON DECEMBER.
      14         WE ALSO WOULD INDICATE THAT WE HAVE THE ONE FOR AUGUST
      15    AND THE M.R.I. OR THE SCAN THAT WAS DONE IN SEPTEMBER.  HE'S
      16    ALSO COMPARED THOSE TO THE ONE HE DID ON THE 26TH.  I THINK
      17    HE'S QUALIFIED TO DO IT.
      18             THE COURT:  IS THIS SOMETHING THAT HE DID WHILE HE
      19    WAS TREATING OR DOING THE FIRST EVIDENCE HE TALKED ABOUT
      20    JUDITH LARSEN ON 12/26/95 OR SOMETHING MORE RECENT?
      21             MR. MAJOR:  THIS IS SOMETHING I HAD HIM DO SINCE
      22    DEFENDANT ENTERED THESE DOCUMENTS AND HAD CROSS-EXAMINED ON
      23    IT.
      24             THE COURT:  WHAT IS YOUR OBJECTION?
      25             MR. STIRBA:  WELL, THE OBJECTION, AND I THINK WE


                                                                       1829



       1    HAD THIS COME UP WITH ANOTHER WITNESS.  I CAN'T RECALL.  BUT
       2    ESSENTIALLY NOW THEY ARE TURNING A TREATING PHYSICIAN INTO
       3    AN EXPERT WITNESS.  AND I HAVE NO -- I'VE NEVER SEEN THE
       4    REPORT.  I'VE NEVER HAD AN OPINION EXPRESSED.  I'VE NEVER
       5    HAD DR. JENSEN -- IT'S NEVER BEEN TOLD ME THAT DR. JENSEN
       6    WAS GOING TO LOOK AT THIS PARTICULAR REPORT AND WAS GOING TO
       7    INTERPRET IT OR RENDER AN OPINION WITH RESPECT TO IT.
       8         AND BY THE WAY, THEY ARE NOT DEFENDANT'S DOCUMENTS.
       9    THEY ARE JUST A MEDICAL HISTORY OF EACH ONE OF THESE
      10    PATIENTS.  AND CERTAINLY IF IT WAS AN EXPERT OPINION OR AN
      11    EXPERT -- OR THE BASIS FOR AN EXPERT REPORT, I WOULD HAVE NO
      12    PROBLEM WITH IT.  BUT THIS GENTLEMAN IS A TREATING
      13    PHYSICIAN.  I'VE HAD NO NOTICE THAT HE WAS GOING TO TESTIFY
      14    AS TO ANYTHING BUT WHAT FACTUALLY HE DID WITH RESPECT TO THE
      15    CARE HE PROVIDED TO, IN THIS INSTANCE, MS. LARSEN AND MAYBE
      16    SOMEBODY ELSE.  SO IT'S PRECLUDED BY OUR ORDER.  AND IT'S
      17    COME UP BEFORE.  IT'S THE SAME PROBLEM AGAIN.
      18             MR. MAJOR:  WELL, YOUR HONOR, WHAT WE HAVE HERE, WE
      19    DID NOT INTRODUCE THESE DOCUMENTS.  AS A MATTER OF FACT,
      20    INITIALLY I THINK WE BELIEVED THAT THEY WERE IRRELEVANT.
      21    HOWEVER, THEY HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED.  WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO HAVE
      22    THE DEFENSE COUNSEL QUESTION OUR WITNESSES CONCERNING PRIOR
      23    REPORTS, PRIOR NURSES' NOTES AND SO FORTH.  WE EVEN HAD
      24    FAMILY MEMBERS QUESTIONED CONCERNING DOCTORS' REPORTS, DR.
      25    KELLER, DR. WILDING.  I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS


                                                                       1830



       1    PHYSICIAN BEING ABLE TO DO THE SAME THING.
       2         WE POINT OUT THAT WE HAVE SUBMITTED TO THE COURT A CASE
       3    WHICH INDICATES THAT IN FACT A TREATING PHYSICIAN CAN
       4    TESTIFY TO THESE THINGS.  HE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE QUALIFIED AS
       5    AN EXPERT.  AT THIS POINT IN TIME HE HAS THE ABILITY TO MAKE
       6    THAT INTERPRETATION.  AND WE'D SUBMIT IT, YOUR HONOR.
       7             THE COURT:  WELL, ISN'T THIS THE SAME SITUATION?  I
       8    MEAN, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY QUESTION UNDER YOUR CASE
       9    THAT THIS PERSON COULD GIVE AN OPINION AS A TREATING
      10    PHYSICIAN IF THEY ARE QUALIFIED.  THE QUESTION IS IF THEY
      11    ARE GIVING AN OPINION DID THEY GIVE AN EXPERT REPORT 30 DAYS
      12    BEFORE TRIAL AND WERE THEY DESIGNATED AS AN EXPERT?
      13             MR. MAJOR:  UNDER THAT CASE THEY WERE NOT QUALIFIED
      14    TO -- THEY WERE NOT REQUIRED TO GIVE AN EXPERT OPINION.  A
      15    TREATING PHYSICIAN IS NOT TREATED AS AN EXPERT.
      16             THE COURT:  I KNOW.  BUT I'VE -- I'VE ADDRESSED
      17    THIS ISSUE AT LEAST TWICE.  AND SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND IF YOU
      18    KEEP ADDRESSING IT, I'M NOT GOING TO BE INCONSISTENT.  HE'S
      19    NOT GOING TO GIVE AN OPINION UNLESS HE WAS AN EXPERT
      20    DESIGNATED AND HE GAVE A REPORT 30 DAYS BEFORE THE TRIAL TO
      21    THE DEFENDANT.
      22             MR. MAJOR:  I APOLOGIZE, YOUR HONOR.  I
      23    MISINTERPRETED.  I THOUGHT, WHEN WE HAD THE PROBLEM WITH THE
      24    OTHER TWO DOCTORS, WE SUBMITTED A CASE AND ASKED THIS
      25    QUESTION.  TREAT HIM AS AN EXPERT.  WE'LL REMOVE ONE OF THE


                                                                       1831



       1    EXPERTS.
       2             THE COURT:  THAT WAS THE FIRST ONE.  THEN THE NEXT
       3    ONE BECAME THE ISSUE OF I DIDN'T GET AN EXPERT REPORT AND
       4    THEY HAVEN'T BEEN DESIGNATED AS EXPERTS.  AND PEOPLE
       5    DESIGNATED AS A TREATING PHYSICIAN AND EXPERT, AFTER THAT I
       6    SAID PHYSICIANS WHO ARE TREATING PHYSICIANS AREN'T GOING TO
       7    GIVE EXPERT OPINIONS.  THAT WAS THE SECOND.
       8         NOW, THE THIRD ONE IS I'M STANDING WHERE I'VE BEEN.
       9    AND IT WILL BE THE SAME.  IF IT HAPPENS AGAIN, I'LL GIVE THE
      10    SAME RULING.
      11             MR. MAJOR:  I APOLOGIZE.  I UNDERSTOOD THAT
      12    DR. CLINGER WAS -- HE COULD NOT TESTIFY FROM HIS OWN REPORT.
      13    SO IF THAT'S THE CASE, WE HAVE -- WELL, I DO APOLOGIZE TO --
      14    MISS BARLOW DID POINT OUT, YOUR HONOR, THERE'S ONE OTHER
      15    AREA WE NEED TO LOOK AT.  I'LL PROFFER THAT DR. JENSEN DID
      16    GIVE AN X-RAY TO ENNIS ALLDREDGE UPON HIS ADMISSION.  WE
      17    WERE GOING TO ADDRESS THAT WITH HIM.  I JUST FORGOT WHEN WE
      18    EXCUSED THE JURY.
      19             THE COURT:  ALL RIGHT.  WHY DON'T WE HAVE THE JURY
      20    COME BACK AND YOU CAN FINISH THAT.
      21             (WHEREUPON, THE JURY RETURNS.)
      22             THE COURT:  PLEASE BE SEATED.  THE JURY HAS
      23    RETURNED.  WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO AHEAD.
      24    Q.  (BY MR. MAJOR)  DOCTOR, I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW YOU NOW
      25    WHAT'S BEEN MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT


                                                                       1832



       1    NUMBER 7, SPECIFICALLY PAGE 0026, AND ASK YOU IF YOU CAN
       2    IDENTIFY THAT?
       3    A.  THIS IS A REPORT OF A CHEST X-RAY DATED 1/10/96 ON ENNIS
       4    ALLDREDGE.
       5    Q.  AND DID YOU PERFORM THIS TEST?
       6    A.  YES, I DID.  ACTUALLY, I INTERPRETED.  I DID NOT
       7    PERFORM.
       8    Q.  YOU HAVE A TECHNICIAN THAT ACTUALLY PERFORMED THE TEST?
       9    A.  CORRECT.
      10    Q.  AND CAN YOU JUST BRIEFLY FOR THE JURY EXPLAIN WHAT
      11    HAPPENED AND WHAT OCCURRED ON THIS OCCASION?
      12    A.  AGAIN, THIS IS A STANDARD CHEST RADIOGRAPH.  IT IS NOT
      13    THE FANCY BIG DONUT MACHINE.  IT'S JUST A REGULAR X-RAY OF
      14    THE CHEST.  THE HISTORY THAT I HAD AT THE TIME WAS
      15    PSYCHOSIS.  AND THEN MY REPORT STATES, THE PATIENT IS STATUS
      16    POST-MEDIAN STERNOTOMY.
      17    Q.  WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
      18    A.  WHICH MEANS THEY PROBABLY HAD -- SOMEONE ENTERED THEIR
      19    CHEST SURGICALLY.  AND THE MOST COMMON REASON FOR THAT IS
      20    FOR CORONARY ARTERY BYPASS, OR CABBAGE IS THE LAYMAN'S TERM,
      21    WHERE THEY DO BYPASS GRAFTING ON HEARTS TO KEEP THEM ALIVE.
      22         SOME BI-BASILAR FINDINGS.  THAT MEANS BOTH LUNGS, THE
      23    LOWER PART OF BOTH LUNGS, ARE NOTED WITH SOME PROMINENCE OF
      24    THE LEFT LOWER LOBE.  IN OTHER WORDS, THERE'S SOME LINEAR
      25    CHANGES OR THERE'S SOME INCREASED DENSITY WITHIN THE LUNG


                                                                       1833



       1    BASES TO SUGGEST THAT THAT IS -- THAT'S NOT 100 PERCENT
       2    NORMAL.  THERE MAY BE SOME ATELECTASIS OR, IN OTHER WORDS,
       3    THE LUNG HAS COLLAPSED A LITTLE BIT.  OR THERE MAY BE A
       4    POTENTIAL FOR EARLY INFILTRATOR PNEUMONIA.
       5         ALSO SOME HAZINESS ALONG THE LEFT LATERAL COSTOPHRENIC
       6    ANGLE CONSISTENT WITH A POTENTIAL SMALL PLEURAL EFFUSION.
       7    THAT JUST MEANS THERE IS A POSSIBILITY OF SOME FLUID IN THAT
       8    LUNG AS WELL THAT'S SITTING IN THE CORNER LIKE RIGHT ALONG
       9    THE EDGE OF THE CHEST X-RAY.  WHEN THEY GET A LITTLE BIT OF
      10    FLUID IT WILL START TO ROUND INSTEAD OF BE A NICE SHARP EDGE
      11    WHERE THE LUNGS MEET THE EDGE OF THE CHEST.
      12    Q.  DOES THAT HAVE ANY SIGNIFICANCE WITH THE HEALTH OF THE
      13    PERSON?
      14    A.  IN A CASE OF THIS KIND OF SITUATION THERE IS A POTENTIAL
      15    FOR THAT BEING A LITTLE MORE INDICATIVE OF EITHER PNEUMONIA
      16    OR POTENTIALLY SOME MILD CONGESTIVE HEART FAILURE.
      17    Q.  AND WHAT ELSE DID YOU LOOK AT?
      18    A.  THE ONLY OTHER THING OF NOTE TO MENTION ON THAT
      19    PARTICULAR CHEST RADIOGRAPH IS THAT IT WAS PROBABLY
      20    PORTABLE.  IT SAYS THAT ON THE TOP, WHICH MEANS WE DON'T
      21    HAVE AS GOOD EQUIPMENT.  THAT THEY ROLL UP ON THE FLOOR TO
      22    TAKE THOSE PICTURES.  AND IN THE END IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL TO
      23    GET ONE DOWN AT THE DEPARTMENT WHERE THEY CAN STAND HIM UP
      24    AND GET SOME REALLY GOOD PICTURES WITH THE REGULAR P.A. AND
      25    LATERAL RADIOGRAPH.  THAT MIGHT HELP FIGURE OUT IF SOMETHING


                                                                       1834



       1    IS GOING ON OR IS NOT GOING ON.
       2    Q.  THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE SUGGESTING?
       3    A.  YES.
       4    Q.  DID YOU SEE, BASED ON THIS CHEST X-RAY AT THE TIME IT
       5    WAS GIVEN, ANYTHING ACUTE?
       6    A.  THE POTENTIAL FOR ACUTE PNEUMONIA IS THERE AND THE
       7    POTENTIAL FOR SOME CONGESTIVE HEART FAILURE IS THERE, BUT
       8    THE FINDINGS BASED UPON THE REPORT ARE RELATIVELY MILD.
       9    Q.  NOTHING APPARENTLY THAT IS LIFE THREATENING?
      10    A.  URGENT, SOMETHING THAT I WOULD NEED TO CALL A PHYSICIAN
      11    ABOUT, NO.
      12             MR. MAJOR:  OKAY.  WE HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS AT
      13    THIS TIME, YOUR HONOR.
      14             THE COURT:  ANY CROSS-EXAMINATION?
      15             MR. STIRBA:  YES, YOUR HONOR.  THANK YOU.
      16                       CROSS-EXAMINATION
      17    BY MR. STIRBA:
      18    Q.  DOCTOR, GOOD AFTERNOON.  THE PLEURAL EFFUSION WHICH YOU
      19    JUST IDENTIFIED ON THAT CHEST X-RAY THAT YOU DID ON
      20    MR. ALLDREDGE ON THE 10TH, THERE ARE SOME CLINICAL FINDINGS
      21    THAT CAN BE MADE TO ASSIST IN THE ACTUAL DIAGNOSIS OF
      22    WHETHER WE HAVE A SIGNIFICANT PULMONARY PROBLEM; IS THAT
      23    RIGHT?
      24    A.  THAT'S TRUE.
      25    Q.  FOR EXAMPLE, THE EFFUSION COULD RESULT IN SOME CHEST


                                                                       1835



       1    PAINS; IS THAT CORRECT?
       2    A.  POTENTIALLY, YES.
       3    Q.  AND THE EFFUSION COULD ALSO RESULT IN SOME DYSPNEA; IS
       4    THAT RIGHT?
       5    A.  VERY TRUE.
       6    Q.  GASPING FOR AIR, THAT'S THE PHENOMENON?
       7    A.  CORRECT.
       8    Q.  AND IT ALSO COULD RESULT -- AS FAR AS A CLINICAL
       9    CORRELATION THERE COULD BE A FEVER; ISN'T THAT TRUE?
      10    A.  FROM THE PLEURAL EFFUSION LIKELY NOT, UNLESS IT WAS
      11    INFECTED PLEURAL EFFUSION.  MOST COMMONLY THE PLEURAL
      12    EFFUSION IS SECONDARY TO PNEUMONIA SO THAT ACTUALLY THE LUNG
      13    IS WHAT'S INFECTED AND THE PLEURAL EFFUSION IS KIND OF AN
      14    ALSO RAN.
      15    Q.  THERE IS A DIFFERENCE, IS THERE NOT, WHEN YOU USE THE
      16    TERM PLEURAL EFFUSION AND, LET'S SAY, PNEUMONIA; IS THAT
      17    CORRECT?
      18    A.  THAT IS.
      19    Q.  AND IT'S TRUE, IS IT NOT, THAT THE EFFUSION IS REALLY
      20    YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A LOSS OF FLUID FROM AN AREA OF THE
      21    LUNG; IS THAT RIGHT?
      22    A.  NO.  YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AN INCREASED AMOUNT OF FLUID
      23    WITHIN THE LUNG SO THAT THERE'S EXTRA FLUID IN THE CHEST
      24    CAVITY.  AND MOST COMMONLY IT'S BETWEEN THE CHEST WALL AND
      25    THE LUNG.  THAT'S WHERE PLEURAL EFFUSION ACCUMULATES IS THAT


                                                                       1836



       1    THAT FLUID ACCUMULATES BETWEEN THE LUNG AND THE CHEST WALL.
       2    Q.  HOW ARE YOU AT DRAWING?  WOULD YOU LIKE TO SHOW US,
       3    PLEASE?
       4    A.  I GUESS SO.
       5    Q.  WOULD YOU LIKE TO SHOW US, PLEASE?
       6    A.  I GUESS SO.  THAT'S NOT MY STRONG SUIT.
       7    Q.  WELL, THAT'S ALL RIGHT.  WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT.  I
       8    THINK IT WOULD BE EASIER IF PERHAPS YOU COULD DRAW IT.  NOW,
       9    I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU THE MAGIC MARKER AND ASK YOU TO DO
      10    WHAT YOU NEED TO DO SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT EFFUSION IS.
      11    A.  SO IF WE DRAW KIND OF A CHEST.  LET ME GET THE
      12    DIAPHRAGMS.  WE GET -- USUALLY WE'LL GET AN AREA HERE WHERE
      13    THE VESSELS AND THE STERNUM AND THINGS LIKE THAT ARE COMING
      14    IN HERE AND THEN WE'VE GOT A HEART.  AND THEN YOU'LL HAVE
      15    THE TRACHEA WILL COME DOWN HERE AND DIVIDE AND GO INTO THE
      16    LUNGS.  YOU'VE GOT YOUR LUNG WHICH BASICALLY FILLS THIS
      17    WHOLE CAVITY.  AND THOSE WOULD BE THE LUNGS.
      18         NOW, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BASE OF THE CHEST,
      19    YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE LOWER PART OF THE LUNG.  SO KIND
      20    OF THIS AREA BACK DOWN IN HERE IS WHERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
      21    THE LUNG BASES.
      22         NOW, THE FLUID THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH PLEURAL
      23    EFFUSION IS FLUID THAT ACCUMULATES RIGHT HERE BETWEEN THE
      24    LUNG AND THE CHEST WALL.  SO THE CHEST WALL IS OUT HERE AND
      25    THEN THE LUNG IS RIGHT HERE.  THEN THERE'S A POTENTIAL SPACE


                                                                       1837



       1    RIGHT HERE.  NOW, IF IT'S FILLED WITH AIR IT'S CALLED A
       2    PNEUMOTHORAX OR COLLAPSED LUNG; AND IF IT'S FILLED WITH
       3    FLUID IT'S CALLED PLEURAL EFFUSION.  THESE ACCUMULATE
       4    BECAUSE OF TWO MAJOR THINGS, BASICALLY PNEUMONIAS AND
       5    CONGESTIVE HEART FAILURE IS PROBABLY THE MOST COMMON REASON
       6    WE'LL SEE FLUID ACCUMULATING IN THOSE SPACES.
       7    Q.  IT'S TRUE, IS IT NOT, IN THE X-RAY THAT YOU READ THAT
       8    YOU DID NOT DETERMINE THAT IN FACT THERE WAS PNEUMONIA THAT
       9    HAD DEVELOPED AS OF THAT POINT; IS THAT RIGHT?
      10    A.  WE WEREN'T CERTAIN.  THERE WERE SOME FINDINGS AT THE
      11    BASES RAISING A POSSIBILITY.
      12    Q.  SURE, BUT THE POINT IS YOU DIDN'T FIND IT?
      13    A.  NO, WE DIDN'T CALL AND SAY THIS LOOKS LIKE PNEUMONIA.
      14             THE COURT:  BOTH SPEAK ONE AT A TIME WITH SPACES IN
      15    BETWEEN.  GO AHEAD.
      16    Q.  (BY MR. STIRBA)  AND IT'S TRUE THAT CERTAINLY ON A
      17    CHEST X-RAY YOU CAN DETERMINE THE EXISTENCE OF PNEUMONIA; IS
      18    THAT RIGHT?
      19    A.  THAT MAY NEED SOME QUALIFICATION.  WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT
      20    ON A CHEST RADIOGRAPH IS THINGS THAT ARE DARK AND THINGS
      21    THAT ARE LIGHT.  AND WHEN WE FIND THINGS THAT ARE LIGHT OR
      22    WHITE THAT DON'T BELONG IN THE WHITE OR LIGHT CATEGORY, THEN
      23    THEY CAN BE A NUMBER OF THINGS.  THEY CAN BE BLOOD.  THEY
      24    CAN BE CELLS, FOR EXAMPLE A TUMOR.  THEY CAN BE PUSS SUCH AS
      25    PNEUMONIA OR THEY CAN BE FLUID SUCH AS WATER.  WE DON'T


                                                                       1838



       1    ALWAYS KNOW WHICH OF THOSE THINGS IT IS.  ON THE CHEST
       2    RADIOGRAPH WE CAN JUST SAY THAT LOOKS TOO WHITE.
       3         THEN WE GO INTO TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, BASED UPON THE
       4    CLINICAL PICTURE OF THE PATIENT, DOES THE PATIENT HAVE A
       5    FEVER.  ARE THEY COUGHING UP SPUTUM THAT LOOKS LIKE IT'S
       6    INFECTED.  THEN YOU SAY OKAY, THAT'S MOST LIKELY PNEUMONIA.
       7    IF THEY DON'T HAVE ANY OF THOSE FINDINGS BUT THEY HAVE
       8    PROBLEMS BREATHING OR HAVE HAD CONGESTIVE HEART FAILURE IN
       9    THE PAST OR OTHER KINDS OF PROBLEMS, WE SAY THAT'S MOST
      10    LIKELY GOING TO BE CONGESTIVE HEART FAILURE.  THAT'S FLUID
      11    BUILDING UP.
      12         OCCASIONALLY, WHEN WE DON'T KNOW, WE HAVE TO DO MORE
      13    EXTENSIVE TESTS SUCH AS C.T. SCANNING OR WE CAN HAVE --
      14    OCCASIONALLY WE HAVE TO BIOPSY SOMETHING TO FIND OUT WHY IS
      15    THAT TOO WHITE.  BUT FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME, WHEN
      16    WE ARE DEALING WITH THESE TYPES OF PATIENTS, IT'S USUALLY
      17    CONGESTIVE HEART FAILURE OR IT'S PNEUMONIA.
      18    Q.  SO IN THIS CASE, BASED ON WHAT YOU FOUND IN YOUR REPORT,
      19    WHAT YOU CAN TELL US IS THAT YOU DEFINITELY FOUND SOME FLUID
      20    IN THAT SPACE BETWEEN THE CHEST WALL AND THE LUNGS, CORRECT?
      21    A.  CORRECT.
      22    Q.  AND THEN IT WAS NECESSARY TO DO SOME CLINICAL
      23    CORRELATION TO AT LEAST DETERMINE FROM THE SYMPTOMS WHAT
      24    SIGNIFICANCE, IF ANY, THAT EFFUSION PROCESS HAD; IS THAT
      25    RIGHT?


                                                                       1839



       1    A.  THAT'S CORRECT.
       2    Q.  IN FACT, AS YOU'VE DESCRIBED IT BASED UPON YOUR REPORT,
       3    YOU THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS ESSENTIALLY A MILD CONDITION; IS
       4    THAT CORRECT?
       5    A.  CORRECT.
       6    Q.  AND IT'S TRUE, IS IT NOT, THAT THERE MAY BE NO CLINICAL
       7    SIGNIFICANCE OR NO CLINICAL SYMPTOMATOLOGY THAT ARISES WITH
       8    RESPECT TO THE FINDING THAT IS REFLECTED IN YOUR REPORT; IS
       9    THAT RIGHT?
      10    A.  THAT IS TRUE.
      11    Q.  WE JUST DON'T KNOW, BUT WE NEED TO OBSERVE THE PATIENT
      12    TO DETERMINE WHAT MIGHT DEVELOP, IF ANYTHING?
      13    A.  CORRECT.
      14    Q.  ALL RIGHT.  I WANT YOU TO GET CREDIT.  JUST DATE THIS
      15    AND PUT YOUR NAME ON IT, PLEASE.  THANK YOU.  YOU MAY RESUME
      16    THE WITNESS STAND.
      17    A.  OKAY.
      18    Q.  NOW, DOCTOR, THE OTHER REPORT -- THE OTHER REPORT THAT
      19    YOU TESTIFIED CONCERNING WAS THE REPORT INVOLVING THE C.T.
      20    SCAN WHICH YOU DID ON 12/26/1995 OF PATIENT JUDITH LARSEN.
      21    DO YOU REMEMBER THAT ONE?
      22    A.  CORRECT.
      23    Q.  DO YOU HAVE YOU THAT IN FRONT OF YOU?
      24    A.  I DO HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF ME.
      25    Q.  NOW, ON THAT REPORT IT'S TRUE THAT WHAT YOU HAD


                                                                       1840



       1    CONCLUDED FROM THE C.T. SCAN WAS THAT THERE WAS NO ACUTE
       2    HEMORRHAGE FINDING; IS THAT RIGHT?
       3    A.  THAT'S CORRECT.
       4    Q.  BUT IT'S ALSO TRUE, IS IT NOT, THAT YOU COULD NOT RULE
       5    OUT, BASED UPON WHAT YOU DID, A SUBACUTE PROCESS WHICH MIGHT
       6    VERY WELL HAVE BEEN A CEREBROVASCULAR ACCIDENT; IS THAT
       7    CORRECT?
       8    A.  THAT'S CORRECT.
       9    Q.  AND IT'S TRUE, AS YOU TOLD THE JURY, THAT YOU ALSO NOT
      10    ONLY COULDN'T RULE THAT OUT, BUT YOU COULDN'T PRECISELY TELL
      11    WHEN THAT EVENT, IF IT IN FACT OCCURRED, OCCURRED; IS THAT
      12    RIGHT?
      13    A.  ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE --
      14    Q.  THE SUBACUTE PROCESS.
      15    A.  RIGHT.
      16    Q.  IN OTHER WORDS, I THINK YOUR TESTIMONY WAS THAT ALL YOU
      17    KNOW IS THAT THE PROCESS THAT YOU AT LEAST OBSERVED,
      18    TYPICALLY YOU WOULD ASSOCIATE WITH SOMETHING THAT WOULD
      19    MANIFEST ITSELF 12 HOURS AFTER THE EVENT AND THEN SOMETIME
      20    LATER; IS THAT RIGHT?
      21    A.  CORRECT.
      22    Q.  SO FOR -- I'M SORRY.  I DON'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT.
      23             THE COURT:  WERE YOU DONE WITH YOUR ANSWER?
      24             THE WITNESS:  NO.  I WAS GOING TO EXPLAIN A LITTLE
      25    BIT MORE ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR REPORT.  THERE'S A MULTITUDE


                                                                       1841



       1    OF FINDINGS AND SOME OF THOSE FIT YES AND NO AND SOME OF
       2    THEM DON'T.  FOR EXAMPLE, THERE IS EVIDENCE OF ATROPHY, THE
       3    SMALL VESSEL ISCHEMIC DISEASE, AND THOSE AREAS ARE AREAS
       4    THAT ARE LOW DENSITY THAT LOOK MORE CHRONIC.  THOSE ARE
       5    CHRONIC FINDINGS THAT WE THINK HAVE BEEN THERE FOR A WHILE.
       6         THE ONE THAT'S KIND OF SUBACUTE IS THE LUXURY PROFUSION
       7    THING WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN THE FRONTAL LOBE.  THAT ONE WE
       8    DON'T KNOW.  THAT'S ONE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WITH
       9    REGARD TO THE COULD HAVE HAPPENED WITHIN THE LAST 12 HOURS,
      10    NOT SURE, AND THE CLINICAL CORRELATION THAT WE'VE TALKED
      11    ABOUT.
      12    Q.  RIGHT.  ONCE AGAIN, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR A PHYSICIAN TO
      13    ACTUALLY MAKE CLINICAL FINDINGS TO ASSIST IN DETERMINING
      14    WHETHER OR NOT WE HAD A SUBACUTE EVENT; IS THAT RIGHT?
      15    A.  THAT'S CORRECT.
      16    Q.  NOW, I LOOKED AT THAT REPORT.  I COULDN'T FIND A TIME
      17    WHEN IT ACTUALLY WAS DONE.  CAN YOU TELL FROM THAT REPORT?
      18    A.  NO, I CAN'T.
      19    Q.  THE TIME --
      20    A.  I CAN TELL WHEN IT WAS TYPED, BUT I CAN'T TELL WHEN IT
      21    WAS PERFORMED.
      22    Q.  ARE YOU AWARE, AS YOU SIT HERE TODAY, THAT YOU WERE
      23    ASKED TO DO THIS SCAN IN RESPONSE TO A SEIZURE EVENT WITH
      24    RESPECT TO THIS PATIENT?
      25    A.  NO.  I'M QUITE CERTAIN THAT ALL OF THE INFORMATION I HAD


                                                                       1842



       1    IS THERE ON THAT CLINICAL HISTORY.  PSYCHOSIS, RULE OUT
       2    BLEED.  USUALLY, IF I HAVE MORE INFORMATION THAN THAT, I'LL
       3    DICTATE THAT INTO THE REPORT.
       4    Q.  OKAY.
       5    A.  SO I'M QUITE CERTAIN I WAS UNAWARE OF A SEIZURE.
       6             MR. STIRBA:  ALL RIGHT.  THANK YOU, DOCTOR.  THAT'S
       7    ALL I HAVE.
       8             THE COURT:  ANYTHING, MR. MAJOR?
       9                     REDIRECT EXAMINATION
      10    BY MR. MAJOR:
      11    Q.  GOING BACK TO MR. ALLDREDGE, DOCTOR, WE TALKED ABOUT
      12    THIS PROBLEM WITH THE WATER IN THE LUNGS.  IS THAT USUALLY A
      13    CONDITION THAT WAS TREATABLE?
      14    A.  YES.  GIVEN THE FACT THAT MOST OF THEM ARE EITHER
      15    PNEUMONIA OR CONGESTIVE HEART FAILURE, BOTH OF THOSE ARE
      16    USUALLY TREATABLE CONDITIONS.
      17    Q.  ONE OF THE REASONS YOU DO THESE IS TO GIVE THE PHYSICIAN
      18    SOME HELP IN EVALUATING THE PATIENT; IS THAT CORRECT?
      19    A.  THAT'S CORRECT.
      20    Q.  ARE YOU AWARE -- BASED ON YOUR TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE,
      21    ARE THERE CERTAIN MEDICATIONS THAT CAN EXACERBATE THE
      22    CONDITION MR. ALLDREDGE HAD?
      23             MR. STIRBA:  YOUR HONOR, I'M GOING TO OBJECT.
      24    EXPERT OPINION.
      25             THE COURT:  SUSTAINED.


                                                                       1843



       1             MR. MAJOR:  WE HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR
       2    HONOR.
       3             THE COURT:  MAY THIS WITNESS BE EXCUSED?
       4             MR. MAJOR:  HE MAY, YOUR HONOR.

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